Sword Top Problem :( [newb]

[Kabal88]

Hi Guys !

I'm working with 3ds MAX for 2 Weeks and applied for a mod project since I thought I could train myself with sumthing like that!

So I got sum guys who are making a Warhammer Mod for a cool game and so I got the job to model a special unit for it.

First of all I tried myself on the weapon and worked on it for 2 days. I didn't got pretty far but that's because I wanted it to look as good as in the reference picture.



As you can see the top of the sword mesh has some -not wanted things-



In the Vertex View - you guys may find the problem...
I welded every single shown vertex and aligned them to the same coords.

I hope you guys can use those picture to help me out!
If you need a Left / Top / etc. View just tell me !

PS: If you guys have a better solution to round the top sword up just tell me :D I just got this one after watching a bunch of tutorials before getting started with 3ds MAX - learning by doing -

Charlie

[minimus]

it should look fine. are you sure the whole blade is on the same smoothing group and not many difrent one. and is this the smoothed version? like turbosmooth added?

[Sw3D]

same here, select all your polygon and affect the same smooth group....
but i think you'll just decrease the problem.
i don't understand why you have create triangles, and why you've not finish it with polys.
As far as possible, on all your models, i advise you to avoid triangles. They create shape problems like this one.

[minimus]

agree with Sw3D on that one. try delete the outer edges and the middel and keep the verts. and see what happens.

[Kabal88]

Originally Posted by Sw3D

same here, select all your polygon and affect the same smooth group....
but i think you'll just decrease the problem.
i don't understand why you have create triangles, and why you've not finish it with polys.
As far as possible, on all your models, i advise you to avoid triangles. They create shape problems like this one.

As you can see I'm not that into 3D modeling so I didn't realized that the problem lies within the triangles :D

I didn't choosed ANY smoothing group because I think it just looks way to bad...a sword should have sharp edges what a smoothing group won't visualize that nice...the only thing what really visually deletes my problem is AutoSmooth "45.0" - but as you said I don't want to decrease the problem, I want to get rid of it.

[Kabal88]

Originally Posted by minimus

agree with Sw3D on that one. try delete the outer edges and the middel and keep the verts. and see what happens.

I deleted the edges you told me - that's what it did :D

I really want to avoid triangles - but on the top of a sword can't be made that way I want it :(

I want to round it up, too...hm...

[Sw3D]

Originally Posted by Kabal88

As you can see I'm not that into 3D modeling so I didn't realized that the problem lies within the triangles :D

simple. on your last image, you see the black shadows part, this is a part of the problem.
triangles are problematic when you subdivise your model. There is a rule in 3D modeling, the edge loop. Modeling with poly only, your curves and lines are perfectly isolated and 100% turn around.
If you insert triangles, there is one vertex in the middle which have not to be here, and create subdivise mistake.

For your specific problem, there is the way you could do you modeling :
i've not use turbosmooth, just the edit poly subdivision surface, with nurbs subdiv. As you can see, i only use poly, and use a chamfer in the middle to create the edge of the blade. I've just tweak the chamfered vertex in side view to create the volume and the roudness of the pike.

[Kabal88]

oh very nice - thx for this one - I'll remember :D

[Kabal88]

What did you did in the left picture? did u added any smoothing? If yes? which?

EDIT: Alright I got it ...NURMS is the smoothing operation you used - didn't know It's definition...

Can u explain NURMS a bit ? Or isn't anything different to it then the other smoothing options?

[Sw3D]

NURMS is a kind of mesh smooth directly associate in the edit poly option panel and it's used to convert a low poly in a subdivised mesh, with only edges on critical location.
To be more clear, a turbosmooth or meshsmooth will subdivise your mesh in making multiple faces on the whole object, to be more rounded and sharp.
a Nurms subdivide use the multiply effect too, but only on strategical points. On severals object, you can save polycount. (in my memories)

as an exemple for the same interation 2 :